but he was working there and he was in the environment and he was soaking up the techniques that 20 years later he applied at fox news. it is classic and driving the message. >> guest: they develop story lines into the health care debate was a classic fox news story line going back in the time of the iraq war and the run-up to the iraq war. >> host: what do you mean by good guys, bad guys? >> guest: they develop adversaries to the case of iraq. fox news was hammering the united nations and remember the whole freedom thing they were handling the television network as hostile and michael moore was a fox news editor and they were on the opposing side and then they would build up the characters on the pro side that president bush was the hero. they repeat them and go through the news hour and they are continuing at prime time and they discuss how the repetition of the stories can be a powerful propaganda technique. >> host: since he watched msnbc and fox. >> host: user they've been about acorn or solyndra. what would you say to people what do you see is the difference between what msnbc is ge